Curse

Xzodia Omaega · Feb 24, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega View Post
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
My purpose of this thread is to try to get enough votes for anet to possibly do something about it.
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As a Rit Who has viewed many topics on Spawning power. I say no.
And Spawning power is more broken then Protection.

Good for you!!!! Umm.. By the way.. "I say no." It seems your just talking crap my friend.

Let me correct you!! This WAS A topoc about protection prayers, which was badly planned on my part.
Let me Correct myself: This is a topic about Revisiting USELESS elites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

And monks summoning spirits?
FAIL

Let me correct you AGAIN. YOU FAIL at the concept of GIVING AN EXAMPLE

Good day sir!

As a final note please Read and understand what your getting into before you spew unpleasent and unwanted body compounds all over my just cleaned thread

t00115577 · Feb 24, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

prot > healing. always has, always will. If damage is negated, no need to heal, nuff said.

As for elites being buffed, I think for one LS should go back to the way it was, what do we need a bad version of RC for, as the old LS was a nice different functionality.

It would be nice to have a change to Amity and Air Of Enchantment, as they are a joke now. Other than this I think the prot line is fine as is.

Xzodia Omaega · Feb 24, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by t00115577

prot > healing. always has, always will. If damage is negated, no need to heal, nuff said.

As for elites being buffed, I think for one LS should go back to the way it was, what do we need a bad version of RC for, as the old LS was a nice different functionality.

It would be nice to have a change to Amity and Air Of Enchantment, as they are a joke now. Other than this I think the prot line is fine as is.

Damn straight. By the way if there are skills you find useless feel free to coment on what they could be changed to.

I mean i would like to see Divine Boon changed so that there is more flexibility. Theres just no way you can use it in a practical sense anymore, and it used to be such an awesome skill. Perhaps the Heal cost: you loose 2 energy Could be changed to:
Heal cost: you loose 2 energy if you cast a non protection spell
OR
Heal cost: you loose 2 energy if your target was below 50% hp

As for RC, It is an awesome spell but i dont get the point in not being able to self target. In my opinion it should be removed its allready got once requirement which is "Heals for each condition" meaning RC is useless unless your ally is conditioned.

zwei2stein · Feb 24, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega

Other than being an irrelivant and unhelpful comment, you would not only be amongst a .001 percent of the guild wars population that does use it.
It was to be made example of. Ultimately its a completely useless skill, feel free to tell me how you can use this skill even for farming When you have HB/WoH/ZB/RoJ ETC ETC?

Pointless answer for pointless thread.

Anyway...

Xzodia Omaega · Feb 24, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Pointless answer for pointless thread.

Anyway...

Pointing out the fact that there are MANY unused elites that could be made interesting, useable or fun is the FARTHEST thing from pointless. Anet does 90% of all its changes from the Feedback they get from fansite forums such as this.

Other than that i wonder how long it took you to find a vid that uses MoP?
You can solo this with any proffession, you can duo with any, and you could use a team OR heros and henchmen.

When you find a build that actually uses MoP where it hasnt just been thrown in for shits and giggles, and when you actually have a comment to make thats half way respectable i will listen and respond with respect.

Untill then please go elsewhere

zwei2stein · Feb 24, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega

Pointing out the fact that there are MANY unused elites that could be made interesting, useable or fun is the FARTHEST thing from pointless. Anet does 90% of all its changes from the Feedback they get from fansite forums such as this.

Other than that i wonder how long it took you to find a vid that uses MoP?
You can solo this with any proffession, you can duo with any, and you could use a team OR heros and henchmen.

When you find a build that actually uses MoP where it hasnt just been thrown in for shits and giggles, and when you actually have a comment to make thats half way respectable i will listen and respond with respect.

Untill then please go elsewhere

Why would i need to google it? I made it. It was once top secret build, clearing cave in 12 seconds when executed perfectly. Not a thing you can ignore even in age of SF sins.

See, skill is not useless or ready for revamp just because you say so. Prot prayers are not in need of great skills. They in fact never were. Anet changes based on pointless feedback only ever caused WTF & QQ.

MagmaRed · Feb 24, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I don't see a need for Protection Prayers to get a boost over some other attributes (Spawning Power for example. There are a lot of elites in Protection Prayers that get regular use in both PvE and PvP. Restore Condition, Life Sheath, Life Barrier, Divert Hexes, Shield of Regeneration, Shield of Deflection, and Zealous Benediction all get used. Some may not get used much, or only in specific places, but they all get used. That only leaves Amity, Mark of Protection, Air of Enchantment, and Aura of Faith. I'm sure some people use them (MoP at least) for certain things, but those don't get used much. The attribute as a whole is very good, and doesn't need 'fixing'. I'm not aware of any skill that is grossly over powered or under powered.

Wanting a couple of elites changed is far different than your topic title suggests. Even then, you'd need to explain why a specific skill SHOULD be changed, as well as HOW it should be changed.

Red Sand · Feb 24, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

From the 11 December 2008 Developer Update:

Quote:

When choosing which Elites to change, we looked at a number of factors:

-The skill has to be generally unused across all formats.
-All professions should have about the same number of updates (with the inevitable variations).
-The skill has to be weak regardless of trends in the game. A skill that's strong as a counter to certain PvP builds but not others would not generally qualify.

So the question to ask is: does Mark of Protection meet these criteria more than any other Monk Skill?

Quote:

Monk Elites are a very delicate balance. They have to be very powerful to compete with other Elites, but not too powerful lest they bog the game down with too much defense. We chose a few skills that we were sure very few players used and gave them new roles that will allow them to compete with current favorites without raising the bar on Monk power.

I'm am probably not qualified to know if a change to Mark of Protection is imbalancing, but I think the developers are on the right track when it comes to changing "bad" elites into "good" ones.

Xzodia Omaega · Feb 24, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Why would i need to google it? I made it. It was once top secret build, clearing cave in 12 seconds when executed perfectly. Not a thing you can ignore even in age of SF sins.

See, skill is not useless or ready for revamp just because you say so. Prot prayers are not in need of great skills. They in fact never were. Anet changes based on pointless feedback only ever caused WTF & QQ.

I asked you to bugger off if you cant stop spouting crap.
Im not Q.Q im not WTF, im asking people to voice their opinion, Say what they think is unuseful and give an example of their opinion.
Not only that again im going to caps this: THE PROT ATTRIBUTE WAS AN EXAMPLE

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

... Even then, you'd need to explain why a specific skill SHOULD be changed, as well as HOW it should be changed.

Apologies for the misleading title I have said before that was bad planning on what i ultimately wanted to say.

As for the last part i quoted thats exactly what im trying to get people to debate, unfortunately people like zwie are trying incredibly hard to just be
a dick and flame needlessly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

From the 11 December 2008 Developer Update:

So the question to ask is: does Mark of Protection meet these criteria more than any other Monk Skill?

I'm am probably not qualified to know if a change to Mark of Protection is imbalancing, but I think the developers are on the right track when it comes to changing "bad" elites into "good" ones.

Other than only thinking about specific skills, what im trying to do is create a thread that people can post "i think this skill is useless because ...raa raa raa..."
then somebody else can say "i agree" or "dissagree" "BECAUSE..."

Tell me a build that uses mark of prot that isnt "top secret" that people ask for? No matter what proffession you are there really is no reason to take that skill. Which is where the

"-The skill has to be generally unused across all formats. "

comes in.

Written somewhere on the website it states very clearly that anet use the official fansites when it comes to player opinions and if something is pointed out where enough players feedback is good or bad then anet will make a judgement based off of it.

When anet decide to do elite skill changes they will decide specifics, your right. But if there is a thread made by their fans which gives a list of skills people regard as useless and why, mixed with other peoples feedback, they WILL use that.

SO... Is there any skills used by warrior, ranger, monk, ele, mesmer, necro, para, derv etc etc that people find useless? If so Name it here.

If any mods or admins could change the title to "What skills are useless and why?" would be appretiated

Lusciious · Feb 24, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

As a Rit Who has viewed many topics on Spawning power. I say no.
And Spawning power is more broken then Protection.

And monks summoning spirits?
And removing both hexes and conditions :S

FAIL

so i see you're comparing a rit and a monk now ? rits do higher damage. they have 5 energy spike heals which works just like ZB e.g. spirit light. they have unremoval weapon spells. i'd say a rit don't really need a primary attribute.

yeah i agree that monks shouldn't be summoning spirits. but why would a [R]RITUALIST[/B] have healing skills ? when the first thing that comes into your mind when you think of ritualists ? rituals ? i don't see anything about healing when i typed "Define: Ritualist/Rituals" in google. its either i'm dumb or something but thats not the point. lol

Xzodia Omaega · Feb 24, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

so i see you're comparing a rit and a monk now ? rits do higher damage. they have 5 energy spike heals which works just like ZB e.g. spirit light. they have unremoval weapon spells. i'd say a rit don't really need a primary attribute.

yeah i agree that monks shouldn't be summoning spirits. but why would a [R]RITUALIST[/B] have healing skills ? when the first thing that comes into your mind when you think of ritualists ? rituals ? i don't see anything about healing when i typed "Define: Ritualist/Rituals" in google. its either i'm dumb or something but thats not the point. lol

Rangers summon spirits too. Besides i didnt say a binding ritual i said spirit.
Not only that it was JUST an idea.
On top of that i dont even think he read the post, he just started talkin about rits and spawning power. lol. i might have this thread closed. its been ruined and i think theres one going allready called Creat skills. that would achieve almost the same things for anet.

Here's the thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10033549

Other than that please lock this one, I'm bored of going over the same thing.

gameshoes3003 · Feb 24, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Since you're talking about revisiting some protection prayers skills, I'll lament on a few.
Reverse Hex:
Yes I know you wanted to talk about elites, but seriously, aside from withdraw hexes (crappy elite), this is not used at all (well for those who use it, do you see other people using it?). I would like it if the cost would be reduced to 5 energy; if the protection part has to be reduced fine; if it has to increased to 3/4 second casting time, fine.

Amity:
I give up on making suggestions to this(I've made a few too many now), just have it changed.

Mark of Protection:
I think it'd be nice if the recharge time was reduced to 30 seconds or at least take off the disabling protection prayers contingent.

Divert Hexes:
I say make it 5 energy and reduce to 2 hexes max, perhaps 3 hexes at 15-16 protection prayers.

Life Attunement:
Make it less negative on the ally, just have a variable negative percent on it. Have it do -40% to -15% as the attributes change.

yep.

draxynnic · Feb 25, 2009, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusciious

so i see you're comparing a rit and a monk now ? rits do higher damage. they have 5 energy spike heals which works just like ZB e.g. spirit light. they have unremoval weapon spells. i'd say a rit don't really need a primary attribute.

Yes they do. The lack of a primary attribute that makes any significant effect on gameplay is why we have so many N/Rts running around.

Quote:

yeah i agree that monks shouldn't be summoning spirits. but why would a [R]RITUALIST[/B] have healing skills ? when the first thing that comes into your mind when you think of ritualists ? rituals ? i don't see anything about healing when i typed "Define: Ritualist/Rituals" in google. its either i'm dumb or something but thats not the point. lol

The Ritualist was, essentially, designed as another option for the traditional monk role - operating in a different manner and a little more offensively-oriented, yes, but with a reasonably strong focus towards putting red bars up and keeping them up. Access to healing is an important part of this. (Something to consider was that at the time of the release of Factions, it was at least theoretically possible to form a balanced party out of one character of each profession - two frontliners, two interrupters, two healers, a nuker and... whatever role you had the Necromancer fulfilling. While theory didn't exactly match experiment, I doubt this was accidental - in Factions, ANet was looking to create new options to fit the high-demand roles. In a way, the Paragon and Dervish in Nightfall may also have been aimed at doing the same thing...)

Rituals are still an important part of the Ritualist's capabilities, but not the only thing.

In short, healing IS a part of the Ritualist's design brief in ANet's eyes. Spirits are most definitely not part of the Monk's.

As another aside... I think people may be stretching the brief of the PvE/PvP skill split. Yes, it means a skill from one can be different to a skill from another in numbers, but they're still supposed to be essentially the same skill... just that one has the numbers balanced for PvE and the other for PvP. Having them do completely different things is something else entirely.

laksa and curry · Feb 25, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega

Thats when you rage obscene words and tell them to uninstall gw.
However thats not my point

[

Why are you accusing me of scolding the team first? I am very sure you had your fair share of " bad experiences". Maybe its your style to assign blame to the warrior to disclaim any liability. Rest assured that generally monks get the blame whenever Dp is collected. You get sarcastic remarks like" nice healing" etc. When that happens how many of you refrain from countering with your own dose of malice?

spirit of defeat · Feb 25, 2009, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega

Good for you!!!! Umm.. By the way.. "I say no." It seems your just talking crap my friend.

Let me correct you!! This WAS A topoc about protection prayers, which was badly planned on my part.
Let me Correct myself: This is a topic about Revisiting USELESS elites.

My point is Anet probably won't change it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xzodia Omaega

Let me correct you AGAIN. YOU FAIL at the concept of GIVING AN EXAMPLE

Good day sir!

As a final note please Read and understand what your getting into before you spew unpleasent and unwanted body compounds all over my just cleaned thread

I don't have to give an example.
Monk's shouldn't cast spirits, we have rit's to do that.

MagmaRed · Feb 25, 2009, 01:39 PM // 13:39

@OP

This is Sardelac. In this forum you present an idea you think would make GW a better game. People then discuss that idea, and agree or disagree with it. You didn't really post an idea. If you want an elite, or a few elites changed, you need to start by picking one or a few and explaining why it should be changed and how it should be changed. The discussion from us would then be on why that idea was good or bad.

If you wanted other people (not yourself) to present skills that should be changed, that is a discussion for Riverside. Basically, it sounds like you want us to make your suggestion for you. I don't think that is your intent, but that is how it sounds to me currently.

Either remake this topic in Riverside where people can discuss various elites they want changed, or remake this topic in Sardelac with specific skills you want changed detailed. I vote for a topic close, as the title and discussion are no where near what the OP wanted.

FoxBat · Feb 25, 2009, 09:14 PM // 21:14

For most PvE, prot elites are questionable, which is what the OP is trying to get at I think. RC's heal ability depends a ton on enemies using condition stacks (a given in most pvp.) Divert or PnH are good when cleaning SY spammers in say DoA but mostly pointless otherwise. SoR is like an elite healing breeze. My favorite elites for an all-prot build would be things like UA, AP, or even GoR- nothing from the prot line itself. Although Aura of Faith is sorta fun.

It still won't matter for 8-man PvE, but ZB could definitely use a buff. Lower recharge to 3, and maybe change the energy return back to 10. WoH and will still be generally preferred over it, but it might show up in low-end PvP and flaggers.

Wubbies · Feb 25, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by t00115577

prot > healing. always has, always will. If damage is negated, no need to heal, nuff said.

As for elites being buffed, I think for one LS should go back to the way it was, what do we need a bad version of RC for, as the old LS was a nice different functionality.

It would be nice to have a change to Amity and Air Of Enchantment, as they are a joke now. Other than this I think the prot line is fine as is.

i would agree with also i like the old LS better.
Power to the hippies!

Lusciious · Feb 27, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

apparently LS can't push bars up ..

Kattar · Feb 27, 2009, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Locked by request of OP.